I want to thank everyone who contributed and I hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it!

Username: mike
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
chris, you are so right about the army wcap. frist off, tommy atencio has the experience, but not the maturity he has over 100 bouts as a JR. he did a very good job as he gets older he will do well. about the officiating, SHAWNS wife should have taken her self out of the bouts that 20th street was in. nobody is forced to officiate. JEANNE DePRIEST is the chief of officials, she should of taken shawns wife off the list for all the bouts that 20th had. about the wcap, they might as well be pros, they are paid to box by the army.that is all they do.  they have a tournament they call the all army, that means that all of the army bases in the u.s. take part in. then they have the all service tournament which means that all the branchs take part in. i think that all the branchs of the service should make one team and take that team to a national tournament as one. if you get a hold of jeanne, ask her how we as fans could ask for a change in the rules. good work.

 

Mike, just like I said it was not something I saw or even paid attention to.  It was told to me by a trainer in the crowd.  Glenn DePriest wrote in and explained that they were doing some training with the 'clickers'.  That led to some confusion, but it is now resolved.  The reason I brought the point up was to inform everyone out there of the rules.  I didn't know about the policies Jeanne has in place so I figured not many others did either.  The Army response will come later in this mailbag while I think Brett Blaney, the Writing Irishman has the amateur rules department under control.

Username: 201plus
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
I agree with you Chris about the Army Team unfairly taking local tourney berths from Colorado boxers. Why? These are not boxers stationed at Ft Carson who happen to box and want some intramural action, they are good boxers highly recruited and sent to Ft Carson.

I didn't actually know of any other avenues for the WCAP to make it to the National Golden Glove Tournament, thus my stated alternative, which everyone was very quick to ignore.  There is no reason that the National Golden Gloves cannot give the Army and some other teams an automatic berth.  Just for the sake of getting the actual best from this state and region.  And again by 'from this state and region' I mean the kids who have competed in Colorado most of their career and represented Colorado on every level of competition.  From smokers to the silver gloves, JO's and everything in between.  He has earned the right to compete in national level tournaments and in my eyes he is the best 'from Colorado', period.  Now you might say what if a kid moves here from another state?  That is one kid who will compete in one weight class.  Not an entire team of elite boxers.  See what I'm saying?

Username: gman
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
i disagree with all of you!! these are american services members who put thier lives on the line for our way of life!!! they are not payed just to box so they are not professional athletes as some of you are assuming they are amatures just like everyone elese they compete against!!! these athletes live and train here in colorado and most of them have lived here in colorado for more then four years. i understand that you all want your athletes to advance to the next level, we all do, but if they cant get out of the state what makes you think they will be successful on the national level?  we all want to be the best but in order to be the best you HAVE TO BEAT THE BEST, and whining and complaining and putting army fighters down isn't going to make you the best!!! if colorado has a problem with military fighters then talked to USA boxing and have them give all military teams at large bids to all national tournaments, but then there would be complaints about that too!!! but eith!
 er way it goes they are still going to end up meeting military fighters there is no way around it!!

gman, no one questioned the boxer's commitment to the armed services and they are truly admirable for having the courage to risk their lives for the freedom of our great country and people who do not truly appreciate it.  I honestly thought that the boxers were a pure recruiting tool for the military and a recruiting tool for the Olympic teams.  I thought that they were basically paid to be boxers representing the government  in an indirect kinda way.  You must admit that they are more or less sponsored by the government.  Can I take the St. Joes boxing team down to the Olympic Training center and set up shop?  I don't know but I doubt it.  It's obviously not a community center like St. Joes or a hole in the wall gym that coaches struggle just to keep the lights on in, let alone worry about new equipment.  It is a state of the art training facility for Olympic and Olympic caliber athletes.  Like the World Class Athlete Program.   I agree that to be the best you have to beat the best, no doubt.  But an entire team of world class athletes at the state level?  Look at 'Colorado's' entry into the regional tournament last year.  Five of the eleven weight classes were from the WCAP.  I don't think it is fair to the boxers in New Mexico either.  They have the same berths taken from them at the regional level.  Automatic bid, a simple solution.  It's not always about winning and losing.  Sometimes you just want to go to the big show, ya know?  Tell your grandchildren about it, in a spiced up story version.

Username: Box_Fan
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
I'm a fan of the sport. I also compete each year at the Ringside Nationals in the Masters devision.

What is the big fuss about Army boxers. I've dealt with army boxers a big part of my life. Yes they do have an Army Championship and it's not just soldiers in the us is soldiers stationed around the world. A soldier in Iraq or Kuwait can't come over here to box in the state each tournament so the army pays for them to come to the states once a year to compete and get an opportunity. If they are good enough they stay and compete further. that is just like any tournament.. If you can't even get out of the state why would you want your boxers going to a national tournament and get hurt.

I was at the fights and I didn't see all of the ridiculing of the boxers while they where there. I saw people congratulating them and taking pictures. Also why is it that you complain about them fighting in the states but when they fight and win national tournament "They are from Colorado"...

Even at the Olympic trials I only saw one other boxer from Colorado there at the 106lb and he didn't fair well against anyone he fought.

You guys need to grow up and support these soldiers and strive to develop your boxers to be on that level.

You should be taking your guys to Colorado Springs to work with those guys and learn instead of crying..

Case and point..  I get my ass kicked every year at the ringside but thats only because some of the guys has lots of experience. I don't cry about it I just try to learn.. Hell maybe I'll go to Colorado Springs to workout and learn from those guys myself..

I read on the website that the WCAP program is only three years per quad. that means the Olympic year is the last year. So over the next year lets just see how Colorado boxer fair at the next level....
 

Box Fan, let me start by saying that you must check some things.  I don't think that Colorado's open class boxer's have any higher chance of injury on the national level than any other boxer.  The 106lber that didn't do  well in your eyes, is Ricky Lopez, who beat Wiley McCannery from St. Louis who is a highly touted and ranked fighter, #5 according to USA Boxing.  He then lost to Austreberto Juarez of Ventura, California who is currently ranked #3.  Oh, and don't forget that Ricky Lopez was the youngest qualifier ever for the Olympic Team Trials having just turned seventeen.  He actually edged out his former stable mate, Victor Ortiz, by a few months. Ortiz has since moved to Oxnard, California. As far as them being from Colorado, I have always disagreed with it, Check it out for yourself, from last years archive.  You said that you are a boxer, in the master's division.  What if every year in order to compete in the Ringside National tournament you had to compete at the state level and that guy kicked your ass every year and you never got to go to the tourney?  And now say that he was only stationed here on a military base.   Would your opinion change then?  I bet it might.

Username: gman
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
[QUOTE=201plus]I agree with you Chris about the Army Team unfairly taking local tourney berths from Colorado boxers. Why? These are not boxers stationed at Ft Carson who happen to box and want some intramural action, they are good boxers highly recruited and sent to Ft Carson.

Username: 201plus
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
Yea gman, who you hiding from?:sneaky:

Hats off to you coaches and parents who give their time, energy and money to keep the local boxing gyms in Colorado operating, I mean basic lights, heat, before you even start talking about equipment or traveling expenses.

Coaching for a fully funded/sponsored boxing program(including travel)has to take a load off a coaches mind.

gman is your coaching time paid? or do you have to work your forty then go to the gym.

Tell us how it works.

Username: mike
Subject: W.C.A.P.  C/O  GMAN
Message:
gman, how long has it been since you or your boxers worked in your MOS, how many times have you or your boxers worked on tanks and at being mechanics? nobody is carying and whining, when is the last time any of your boxers put thier lives on the line. why does each branch of the service have there own region? ask tommy if he gets a pay check every month. nobody is puting the army team down. tommy atencio just came out of the JOS. how long has it been since your boxers have been in the JOS? why dont you explain how a military man becomes a boxer and then a wcap boxer. are you all T.A.D.? what is the top rank of your boxing team? you said that your boxers have been at FT. CARSON for over four years, what does that mean? the young kids that box the army men have just turned seventeen, so they are fighting men, it seems that you are the one that is whining so that you all would be able to stay in the colorado region. do you have a novice program? how many boxers have you trained!
  that have never boxed before? all of the colorado boxers are trained very well, but they dont have the kind of discipline you are takling about, these young boxers have never been to bootcamp to get the kind of discipline your boxers have. how old is abron,daniels, and mason? boxfan are you from colorado? you say you compete at ringside every year, have you ever boxed a seventeen year old at ringside? and why not? the kid you saw at the olympic trials, just got out of the jrs. so you see our young guys dont have the maturity yet, as do the MEN in the army.

Username: gman
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
[QUOTE=mike]chris, you are so right about the army wcap. frist off, tommy atencio has the experience, but not the maturity he has over 100 bouts as a JR. he did a very good job as he gets older he will do well. about the officiating, SHAWNS wife should have taken her self out of the bouts that 20th street was in. nobody is forced to officiate. JEANNE DePRIEST is the chief of officials, she should of taken shawns wife off the list for all the bouts that 20th had. about the wcap, they might as well be pros, they are paid to box by the army.that is all they do.        they have a tournament they call the all army, that means that all of the army bases in the u.s. take part in. then they have the all service tournament which means that all the branchs take part in. i think that all the branchs of the service should make one team and take that team to a national tournament as one. if you get a hold of jeanne, ask her how we as fans could ask for a change in the rules. good work.[!
 /QUOTE]

how can you even consider wcap athletes to be pro athletes?? we are soldiers first!!! we get paid to be soldiers not boxers!!  are jobs in the military isn't just to be boxers, we all have differant jobs from mechanics to tankers. so you see we work just like everyone elese. as far as the armed forces championships that gets us a bid to the US championships as far as the other tournaments we dont bring people in for that. we have to compete like everyone elese through state and regional competitions where ever we are registered to get to the nationals so why should we be segregated just because we are in the military? if your boxers are as good as you think they are then it doesn't matter who they compete against!! and believe me the army has tried to get atlarge bids but colorado always goes agains it!!! so stop crying about army athletes competing here in colorado, we didn't make the rules we just follow them!!
 

gman, my good friend and tourney berth nemesis.  Let me announce clearly that I do not intend any disrespect to America or the military or the boxers and soldiers and I respect and appreciate everything they do..  But I must say my piece.  They are soldiers first, I agree.  Just not very first.  Who was the last WCAP soldier to be deployed into another country on assignment for a war situation?  And not one that got kicked out of the program first.  Please tell me so we can end this debate as well.  Like I said they are at the very least sponsored by the government.  To me, in boxing that is having a promoter.  Let me explain. Many pro boxers must work a full time job and box part time on their free time, after work.  Once they get a big promoter behind them they no longer work jobs, they get a sponsorship of sorts from the promoter to now be a full fledged full time professional fighter.  No more worrying about finding time to train and run and working out in the basement and sparring in little half-assed floor rings.  No more problems getting the time off from work or anything else, they are now professionals.  The WCAP athletes are in a sense professional boxers.  They get the best.  They get sent to Ft. Carson to work with the best coaches and train in the very best facility that their promoter has to offer.  Speaking of coaches, do you guys have military jobs as well or are you trainers only?  Just asking for the knowledge, don't get upset at me for asking.  They also get the chance for 'tune-up fights' at the state and regional level, just like the promoter's top prospects should.   And against who?  The boxers in Colorado who go to school, go to work, take care of kids, etc, etc. and then find time to train and box.  Maybe you can see what I'm saying now. 

Username: gman
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
[QUOTE=randy]i look for tommy atencio to make huge strides in the near future ! nice job tommy ![/QUOTE]   :thumb: yea i couldn't agree with you more!!! tommy is going to be someone to reckon with in the future!!! he has a whole lot of potential!!

Like I said he is the very best Colorado has at 119lbs!

Username: gman
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
hey no need to appoligize, there are no hard feelings!!! just to let you know the army does not have any other avenues to get to the national level tournaments other then going through the state and regional competitions!!!  the only competition that the army can go a differant route is for the U.S. Championships, every other competition the army has to compete just like everyone elese, state, regional, etc.  so dont take it as we are just trying to overtake your competitions, we are just trying to get to the next level just like everyone elese:)

We agree after all gman.  I am just trying to get my Colorado boxers to the next level and I am of the opinion that those berths are being taken by the WCAP.  Not that it is the WCAP's fault.  I'm not faulting them, just the system.  And like I said I want everyone to participate.  Let the promoter fly them for their home town tourneys.  I am only hoping for a change.

Username: Olguin
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
All I know is this, It is very hard to win a state title in Texas. You have to sometimes win City,Region and then go to State.You sometimes have to fight 12 to 15 times to win a state title.When I was a fighter in Colorado the Army team was still good but only the best fighters would go to Nationals. If you are not the best in your state then why take a chance at nationals? If a fighter is stationed in Colorado the they can fight for Team Colorado. If your fighters do not beat them, then train them harder next time. Thanks

I understand your struggle I hope you understand mine.

Username: lehebron
Subject: W.C.A.P. PROGRAM
Message:
gman, most military folk keep their home of record as their home state therefore they get a way with not paying Colorado state tax(payroll tax). They do however pay sales tax on items they may purchase off of base. All items on military bases are tax free. The only advantage military fighters have is training opportunity. Once you make the Army team you basically have unlimited training time. Ft. Carson by the way does have the best military fighters. Anybody who has a fight with an Army fighter knows they're fighting someone who well prepared with exceptional skill. So should they receive automatic births? Yes. But that's just my opinion.
 

Username: lehebron
Subject: W.C.A.P.  C/O  GMAN
Message:
Military fighters are still soldiers first and foremost. They still deserve to respect of being a soldier. Once a soldier who stops boxing for what ever reason, he sent back to his company he is permanently assigned to. I kinda see the army's point of view they don't make the rule they just play by them. wouldn't you, if you had the chance? Things may have changed since I was at Carson though(1996). Johnathan Corn was one of the star army fighters then.   

 

Thanx man

look mr editor, you are absolutly wrong about WCAP!!! this is not the
athletes primary jobs and they do not get paid just to box.  they all hold
differant jobs that they came into the military to do. its people like you
who give military fighters a bad rep. they are soldiers and most of them
have been deployed to various parts of the world defending your way of
life!!  these athletes live and train here in colorado so they have every
right to fight and represent colorado.  the army team has tried on several
accounts to get an at large bid to national tournaments but everytime we try
someone, from colorado complains and says it would hurt the state if they
just allowed the army team to have an at large bid.  so i dont understand
you alls logic!!  colorado has some decent boxers in my oppinion, and some
of them has more experiance then some of the military fighters but just
because they were born and raised here doesn't give them the right to not
compete against the best the state has to offer.  if the miltary are
registered in colorado we should be able to fight and represent colorado
just as well as anyone elese!!!  and also for your information we dont have
a wcap trials. wcap boxing team lives and trains here in colorado just like
the rest of the teams from colorado there is no differance. like i said we
tried to get an atlarge bid but colorado cried about that and we cant go
back where we are from because we are registered in colorado and who has the
money to send athletes all over the country??? NOT THE ARMY!!!!   hey we
competed in an open competition and like you said mr. antencio has alot of
experiance. he entered the tournament which to me meens that you are
prepared for any and everything, he was just out classed!!! so dont put down
army fighters for trying to go out and be the best that they can be and
fulfill thier dreams as well!!  its like you said, if colorado fighters
can't compete with the best the state has to offer, then maybe some of your
fighters should goto wyoming(i dont agree with that) but you said it, i
didn't.

Let me just touch on some things not already covered.  Who in Colorado exactly said that it would hurt the state to give the Army a berth.  Someone who wants to have a strong regional team I bet.  Maybe you should have WCAP trials and like I said that would be it, you would have to go back to your home state to compete.  And yes we all know the ARMY has the money, not even money just the resources to send them.  I never put the fighters down, except for DeAndrey Abron based only on what I witnessed from ringside.  I will address Abron's mail bag later this week. 

Everyone please re read the article I wrote and really look for the meaning.  I never put fighters down unless I really feel they deserve it.  I have the utmost in respect for them and their courage. 

Check the article again

I apologize for taking so long with this mail bag.  I, like most boxers in Colorado have to work a 50 hour a week job, take care of my little ones, and my girl and then find time for RockyMountainBoxing, hope you guys can cut me some slack.  I will be answering them a lot sooner from here on out, so send in the opinions.  I hope these mail bags and the Fight Fans Forum can be this educational for me all the time and hopefully for fans as well.

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